We haven't died yet for goodness sake

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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Smiley Culture » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:02 am

What's really happening is people are whipping themselves into histeria over nothing more than speculation and Internet rumour. Nothing has actually changed has it? The club isn't up for sale at present, despite a Waltham Forest Guardian article that includes no substantial evidence to suggest we are actually up for sale and until there is some form of official communication from the club to suggest otherwise, Francesco Becchetti (unfortunately) remains Leyton Orient chairman.

Becchetti hasn't attended games for a while now, which is about one of the only facts we have at present. Why? Who knows. It could be one of many reasons and he, the club and other employees at the club hasn't deliberated as to why he's absent and people on here, Twitter and Facebook have chosen to construe this as "he's lost interest, he's got the hump, he's punishing us" and many more things.

We also know that Andy Edwards hasn't spoken directly to Becchetti in regards to the transfer window and he goes through Vito Miceli and Rob Gagliardi. Again, people have chosen to speculate why this has happened without any information or fact to substantiate their claims.

As for LOFT, they say they have a 'disaster plan' in place or they're working towards one. I would imagine, or at least, like to think that most, if not every, Supporters Trust would have some form of plan in place should things go sour at their club regardless of the general opinion of their current chairman and owner.

Really this all boils down to one thing, communication, or should I say, the lack of it. Many rumours could be put to bed with a statement or interview from the club and this would keep everyone abreast of current affairs at the club and put minds at rest, even temporarily.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by jamie9456 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:17 am

Well said tbf.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Il Commissario Montalbano » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:57 am

GoochDogHighFives wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:Some people (including prominent members of LOFFT) have had a hard-on for the idea of a phoenix club ever since the takeover was announced. They've even mentioned it in interviews with BBC London.

As above, planning for the worst is fine, but retaining our league status and, failing that (or even if we succeed), rescuing the club we already have should be the absolute priority. There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.

Trust me, that is the last thing that anyone in LOFT wants. No one wants to see our club gone. It is not even guaranteed to work. A very unfair and untrue statement.

Please explain your how you have come to that conclusion (and show your workings)


Because I've heard one of your prominent committee members talking about a phoenix club on BBC London. Hope this helps.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by RedDwarf » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:41 pm

jamie9456 wrote:Don't really get the doom mongering at this point? Sure we're in dire straits and heading down a path unknown but Jesus get a grip, we're nowhere near extinct yet. Reading this forum you'd think we'd already started the funeral plans.

Irrespective of what Becchetti does, we need to maintain FL status as the biggest priority.

We're not really near that stage of Phoenix club planning, emergency rescues etc. We have no idea what the unpredictable FB might do, and for one you'd think it would be in his interest to find a buyer anyway, who that might be I haven't a clue but that isn't my prerogative. I would agree that's the most worrying part because I don't see any redeeming assets to the club at the minute. Having said this, I've seen far stranger things than a wealthy investor purchasing a struggling football club, a consortium getting together, pulling together fan ownership arrangements, we've still got a lot of potential options and we haven't even had to cross those bridges yet.

The past 3 or 4 years has seen selmdon few FL clubs fold, in fact I'm struggling to think of one? I know Northampton came close last season and they didn't have it so bad did they?

My point being, the club hasn't died and nor do I envisage it going. Of course a lot will depend on FBs thinking with the debts and whatever he chooses to saddle the club with, but there's a long way to go- we've only hit the iceberg there's a lot more water to take on before we sink.

All we can do is try and rally behind the team on the field because we'll give ourselves a far better chance to survive as a club if we stay up, that's for sure


I understand the points your making but out of interest it only took the Titanic 2HR 40 MINS to sink after hitting that iceberg
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by jamie9456 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:45 pm

That was also in 1911. Over a hundred years later we're better equipped now :)
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by RedDwarf » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:49 pm

At full time at home it should be women and children first for the exit. :)
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by omygawd » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:08 pm

jamie9456 wrote:That was also in 1911. Over a hundred years later we're better equipped now :)

Not sure we are. The man in charge of our vessel isn't qualified and he too has crap lookouts.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Max B Gold » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:28 pm

Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:Some people (including prominent members of LOFFT) have had a hard-on for the idea of a phoenix club ever since the takeover was announced. They've even mentioned it in interviews with BBC London.

As above, planning for the worst is fine, but retaining our league status and, failing that (or even if we succeed), rescuing the club we already have should be the absolute priority. There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.


I honestly expected more from you CM and certainly not sexualised slander. By all means disagree but leave out the personal stuff.

Your reference to Phoenix Club is out of context. No one wants that but the possibility has to be considered.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by RedDwarf » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 pm

omygawd wrote:
jamie9456 wrote:That was also in 1911. Over a hundred years later we're better equipped now :)

Not sure we are. The man in charge of our vessel isn't qualified and he too has crap lookouts.


:lol: :clap
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by GoochDogHighFives » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:43 pm

Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:
GoochDogHighFives wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:Some people (including prominent members of LOFFT) have had a hard-on for the idea of a phoenix club ever since the takeover was announced. They've even mentioned it in interviews with BBC London.

As above, planning for the worst is fine, but retaining our league status and, failing that (or even if we succeed), rescuing the club we already have should be the absolute priority. There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.

Trust me, that is the last thing that anyone in LOFT wants. No one wants to see our club gone. It is not even guaranteed to work. A very unfair and untrue statement.

Please explain your how you have come to that conclusion (and show your workings)


Because I've heard one of your prominent committee members talking about a phoenix club on BBC London. Hope this helps.

I refer you to A Pedant's reply to you on page 1
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Il Commissario Montalbano » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:15 pm

Max B Gold wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:Some people (including prominent members of LOFFT) have had a hard-on for the idea of a phoenix club ever since the takeover was announced. They've even mentioned it in interviews with BBC London.

As above, planning for the worst is fine, but retaining our league status and, failing that (or even if we succeed), rescuing the club we already have should be the absolute priority. There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.


I honestly expected more from you CM and certainly not sexualised slander. By all means disagree but leave out the personal stuff.

Your reference to Phoenix Club is out of context. No one wants that but the possibility has to be considered.


Please explain how it's out of context.

The problem as I see it is that, whilst things are undeniably awful, any public discussion of a phoenix club actually detracts from the task of unifying fans in positive action against the way the club is being run. Its very mention causes a distraction from the matter at hand - which as LOFT have correctly identified all along should be about achieving transparency and, failing that (and now that has failed), calling on Becchetti to sell and the seeing whether LOFT is able to work with any potential investors who might seek to gain control of the club.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Il Commissario Montalbano » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:25 pm

A Pedant wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.

Couldn't agree more, that's the absolute worst case disaster scenario. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be planned for though.


I have no problem with planning if the absolute worst case disaster scenario should arise. I do have a problem with representatives of LOFT discussing it in the media before all other options have been exhausted. As I've said above, it's divisive and a distraction.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Max B Gold » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:38 pm

Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:
A Pedant wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.

Couldn't agree more, that's the absolute worst case disaster scenario. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be planned for though.


I have no problem with planning if the absolute worst case disaster scenario should arise. I do have a problem with representatives of LOFT discussing it in the media before all other options have been exhausted. As I've said above, it's divisive and a distraction.


But it wasn't discussed as a real option. It was discussed on the basis of "what if the club ceased to exist".

I know from your previous posts you have a personal beef running with LOFT/MR but you shouldn't let that be dragged into things here and making a big deal about the answer given to a hypothetical situation.

Your analysis above about where we are and what needs done is agreed BTW.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by MafiosO » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:54 pm

And we won't. I await the much talked about fans buyout or LOFT take-Over. No problem.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Il Commissario Montalbano » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:03 pm

MafiosO wrote:And we won't. I await the much talked about fans buyout or LOFT take-Over. No problem.


There is no "much talked about fans [sic] buyout or LOFT take-Over [sic]" except, apparently, inside your bizarre mind.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Il Commissario Montalbano » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:07 pm

Max B Gold wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:
A Pedant wrote:
Il Commissario Montalbano wrote:There should be no mention of phoenix clubs unless Leyton Orient FC actually ceases to exist.

Couldn't agree more, that's the absolute worst case disaster scenario. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be planned for though.


I have no problem with planning if the absolute worst case disaster scenario should arise. I do have a problem with representatives of LOFT discussing it in the media before all other options have been exhausted. As I've said above, it's divisive and a distraction.


But it wasn't discussed as a real option. It was discussed on the basis of "what if the club ceased to exist".

I know from your previous posts you have a personal beef running with LOFT/MR but you shouldn't let that be dragged into things here and making a big deal about the answer given to a hypothetical situation.

Your analysis above about where we are and what needs done is agreed BTW.


Wouldn't say I have beef with LOFT. I'm a fully paid-up member and have raised concerns about specific issues when they have arisen.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Blindpew » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:22 pm

Off The Hook wrote:
jamie9456 wrote:All we can do is try and rally behind the team on the field because we'll give ourselves a far better chance to survive as a club if we stay up, that's for sure


Well said. I wish LOFT would pack it in with their ridiculous contingency planning and instead focus their energies on cheering the lads on to survival.


Well said both.. Heard certain LOFT mmbers already have their Harry Zussman cigars on order!
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by French polisher » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:43 pm

jamie9456 wrote:That was also in 1911. Over a hundred years later we're better equipped now :)


1912.
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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by EliotNes » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:20 pm

BTT

Exactly

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Re: We haven't died yet for goodness sake

PostPosted by Classic Intercourse » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:37 am

Jeepster wrote:At least one superfan commentator in another corner of the interweb can see the woods for the trees:

MY HONEST ASSESSMENT.......

For me, the entire situation, whilst actually becoming more complex, is actually becoming further simplified.


So that's cleared that up. But no prizes for guessing who wrote it, I'm afraid.


If ever we needed a very long-winded explanation of why people have no confidence in LOFFT, this is it.
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